Nepal: INTERVIEW WITH DR BABURAM BHATTARAI
By Akhilesh Tripathi and Ujir Magar
Excerpts of a recent interview with senior Maoist leader Dr Baburam Bhattarai:
Q. What agreements were reached between you and the leaders of the Nepali Congress and CPN-UML, two largest parties of the Seven Party Alliance (SPA), at the informal meeting at Godavari on July 14?
Dr Baburam Bhattarai: The eight-point agreement signed between the CPN-M and the SPA on June 16 is a milestone for peace and progressive change in Nepal. This agreement was a concrete step forward towards resolving the 10-year-old conflict. The most important understanding reached at Godavari is, as mentioned in the eight-point agreement, to dissolve the reinstated House of Representatives, which represents the old regime, and our people's government, which is the new regime, and form an interim regime. Another important understanding is to keep both the armies (Maoist People's Liberation Army and Nepal Army) under reliable international monitoring until the Constituent Assembly elections. Thus the Godavari meeting helped clear the uncertainties over the dissolution of the House that surfaced after the eight-point agreement. We all agreed that there is no alternative to the eight-point agreement.
Q. Now there is talk about forming an interim parliament by dissolving the HoR. What is this interim parliament? Will the existing parliament be expanded by including representatives from your party to make it the interim parliament? What will be the structure and size of the interim parliament?
Bhattarai: The existing parliament has neither legitimacy nor full representation. The parliamentary parties, just to ensure their role, reinstated it on May 2 by reaching an agreement with the king. Therefore, the dissolution of this parliament is inevitable. There is no question of we joining or sharing this parliament. We have been demanding the dissolution of this parliament from the very beginning and the eight-point deal has made it quite clear. After the dissolution of this parliament, we need an alternative arrangement, which can exercise sovereignty and state authority during the interim period. Therefore, it has been our demand from the beginning to hold a wider political conference of all the three forces of the democratic movement- the Maoist party, SPA and the civil society- to form an Interim Council, which would function as the interim legislature and would represent all the three forces. Some have named this interim legislature as the interim parliament. Only the seven parties are represented in the current parliament. We need an interim legislature, which represents the other two forces, our party and the civil society, as well. The interim constitution to be formed will have provisions for the interim legislature, executive and judiciary. We will need a constitutional court (interim judiciary). Otherwise, the current judiciary may create hurdles in the way forward.
Q. What will be the position of the king in the interim constitution?
Bhattarai: This issue, too, figured in the Godavari meeting. It is our proposal that we should announce a democratic republic in the interim constitution itself because this is the mandate of the April movement. A democratic republic has always been our agenda. Most of the parties in the SPA and a majority of the civil society, too, are in favour of a democratic republic.
Q. It could be the demand or stand of your party. But what decision was reached between you and the SPA regarding the king's position in the interim constitution?
Bhattarai: We will discuss this issue in the meting of the top Maoist and SPA leaders on July 21 (Summit Talks). This will be a major agenda at the summit talks. We will also discuss the modalities of interim security, interim legislature, restructuring of the state and the electoral system. These will be the major agendas of the summit talks.
Q. What will happen to the proclamations the HoR has made so far and the annual budget announced by the SPA government last week?
Bhattarai: We will have to announce a new budget after the formation of the interim government. Therefore he (Finance Minister) made a ridiculous attempt (by presenting the budget). It was totally unnecessary. He made the budget speech without consulting us. We feel that it was just a waste of time and energy.
We will incorporate the positive proclamations of this House and also the positive provisions of the 1990 Constitution into the interim constitution.
Q. You mean the interim government to be formed will announce another budget?
Bhattarai: Definitely. There will be a new structure (interim government) and a new power balance. A new plan will be chalked out for the social, economic transformation. Then there obviously will have to be a new budget.
Q. Going back to the concept of this interim parliament, how will it be represented? Will the existing political separation of the country into 14 zones, 75 districts and 205 electoral constituencies, be followed to choose the representatives of the interim parliament or will there be any other method?
Bhattarai: This is an issue to be settled through consensus among the political forces. In the interim legislature, the seven parties will be one side, we (Maoists) another side and the civil society and other professional organisations the third side. The interim legislature will have the representation of all these three sides. The number (of representatives in the interim parliament) will be decided through consensus among all the forces.
Q. Who will lead the interim government?
Bhattarai: We are yet to discuss this issue. This can be settled through discussions.
Q. Are you ready to join an interim government led by, let's say, the Nepali Congress or the CPN-UML?
Bhattarai: The Interim Constitution will decide on that. We shouldn’t consider the past while looking at it; (Nepali) Congress and UML will be just a part of it. A new power equilibrium has emerged after the recent people's movement. Congress and the UML are old forces. We think they do not represent the new balance of power.
Q. What will happen to your army?
Bhattarai: We have made ourselves clear on this issue earlier. Both armies (PLA and Nepal Army) will be kept at specific locations under international monitoring until the Constituent Assembly elections so that they remain inactive and cannot interfere with the elections. We will reach an understanding to develop a mechanism for this so that the elections are held in a free and fair manner. What I would like to add here is- this issue also figured in the Godavari meeting and we and some other parties expressed concern over it- the democratisation of the royal army which has now been renamed as the Nepal Army is a major question. But this issue is not being widely debated. People are raising questions about the management of only the PLA, which is a pro-democratic army. But nobody cares about the democratisation of the Nepal Army which is still a royal army and which is anti-democratic. This is a major issue and should be properly settled by the interim constitution. If this army is not democratised in the interim period itself, it may create hurdles in the way to constituent assembly elections.
Q. NC leader Ramchandra Poudel, who also was present in the Godavari meeting, has said that the present House of Representatives cannot be dissolved.
Bhattarai: We have already reached an agreement (to dissolve the House). How can he say that now? This will merely be an attempt to block the peace process and invite conflict; it will be suicidal for them (seven parties). Backing away from the agreement would be a violation of the agreement and would mean continuation of the conflict.
Q. At the Godavari meeting, an agreement was reached to help rehabilitate the people who have been displaced and whose land and property have been seized by your party during the 10 years of conflict. When will this agreement be implemented?
Bhattarai: It has been made clear in the 12-point understanding, eight-point understanding and the 25-point (ceasefire) code of conduct. Its implementation has also begun. Some difficulties have, however, been observed in the implementation process at some places. To address this, an agreement has been reached to form a mechanism at the central level with representatives from all parties. The problems seen in the implementation will be settled by this mechanism as per the 12-point understanding.
Q. We have a situation here where the current SPA government has accepted ceremonial monarchy; it has even allocated a certain budget for the royal palace. On the other hand, your dialogue with the government, too, is going side by side. Is it an indication that your party, too, has accepted a ceremonial monarchy?
Bhattarai: There is no question of us accepting any form of monarchy. No one should be confused. A democratic republic has been our continuous demand since the royal palace massacre in 2001.
Q. What will be the king's situation when you join the interim government?
Bhattarai: Our proposal is, let's declare Nepal a democratic republic through the interim constitution itself. But it is still under discussion. Let's see how it goes. It won't be appropriate to say more than this right now.
Q. Your party and the SPA were together in the April Movement. The recent political change was possible through your joint efforts. But in the aftermath of the movement, there still seems to be some lack of trust between your party and the SPA. Many times you have acted like rebels and the SPA as the state. What could be the reasons?
Bhattarai: The main reason is the seven parties sometimes forget that the main fight is against the monarchy. We realised that we cannot defeat the monarchy by fighting against it separately. Therefore we launched a joint movement. The 12-point understanding was an expression of this realisation. The movement became successful because of the 12-point understanding. And the movement's mandate is to abolish monarchy and establish a democratic republic. But they (SPA) sometimes forget that the monarchy is our common enemy and start considering us as their enemy. Their lies the problem. At the Godavari meeting, we raised this issue and asked them, "Who do you consider your main enemy- we or the king?" Then they accepted that the king is the common enemy.
Q. Isn't your armed force also a reason for their worry and the lack of trust between you?
Bhattarai: Our arms are not against them (SPA) and democracy. They are against the monarchy and the royal army. They don't need to fear our arms. We told them (SPA leaders, at Godavari) that they don't fear the weapons of the king, who has cheated them time and again, but always raise the issue of our arms. Then they realised and agreed for the democratisation of the royal army. This has pushed us closer to the meeting point.
Q. Some parliamentarians are saying that the dissolution of parliament will create a vacuum which could encourage the regressive elements.
Bhattarai: This has no logic. What did this parliament do? Could it stop the King's autocracy? Could it stop his February 1 move? Everybody should be clear that this parliament was reinstated by the popular movement based on the 12-point understanding. This parliament was revived through people power. Thus it is clear that this parliament is nothing in itself; the king can do anything with it whenever he likes. Therefore it's not important whether this parliament remains or not; the most important thing is unity of the people, the unity among the allies of the democratic movement. If the unity among the democratic forces is strong, we can form a body that can exercise sovereignty and state authority.
Q. Ambassadors of some powerful countries have said that if the Maoists join an interim government without decommissioning their army, then the interim government formed in this way will not get international acknowledgement and support. What do you say?
Bhattarai: This is not based on facts. World history of conflict resolution shows that nowhere in the world- from South Africa to, Guatemala of Latin America to East Timor to Ireland- have the rebels given up arms before the final step of the conflict resolution process. People like Moriarty who are saying so have forgotten world history. We shouldn't be disillusioned by such statements.
Q. You don't want permanent management of your arms before the constituent assembly elections. This means you are keeping the option to go back to war open until the elections?
Bhattarai: What about the arms of the royal army that have been time and again used against democracy since 1960? It's clear that the royal army's weapons are not under the government's control. Recently the generals went to the palace to greet the king and fired cannons to celebrate his birthday against the government's directive. This clearly shows the royal army, whose name has been changed, is not under government control. Therefore, the real danger is from the royal army.
Q. You participated in the past peace talks also. How much hopeful are you of the success of the peace process this time?
Bhattarai: The situation is different now. This time we and the SPA jointly launched the movement based on the 12-point understanding. In this way, we are friendly forces of the movement. The monarchy is much weaker now as compared to the past. If the unity among the seven parties, our party and the civil society is strengthened, we can defeat the monarchy and ensure the establishment of a democratic republic and peace in the country. Therefore, we are much hopeful of the success of the peace process this time. But we are not completely assured. The SPA leadership will have to play a progressive role for the success of the peace process.
From our side, we will do all we can to make the peace process successful. Because we really want the restructuring of the state and all problems related to caste, region and gender resolved. We want peace. We are committed and will try to establish peace in the country until the end. But if some international powers intervene and do not let this happen, people will rise up again. But, as our chairman has also said, we won't return to the jungle. We will lead the rebellion from here in Kathmandu.
Q. You won't return to war?
Bhattarai: Surely not. The entire Nepali people want peace and progressive change in the country. Then how can we want war? The people should rise up against and defeat those who want war. We will help the people in that rebellion.
Q. Your party quite often talks about the restructuring of the state. How do you plan to restructure the state? How different will it be from the existing political separation of the country into five development regions, 14 zones and 75 districts?
Bhattarai: These development regions, zones and districts are just the revenue collection units of the old regime. These administrative units which they have made to maintain the so-called law and order are very much centralized and represent a unitary state. This did not solve the problems of the people. We should change this unitary state system into a federal state system based on regional autonomy. This can be done based on the nine different autonomous regions which we have formed- Seti, Mahakali, Karnali, Magarat, Tamuwan, Newa, Tamang, Kirant and Madhes autonomous regions. This is the restructuring of the state we have been talking about.
Q. Does the SPA agree with this concept of yours?
Bhattarai: We are discussing this with the SPA. Some parties of the SPA have agreed while some are not clear about it. This too will be a major agenda at the Summit talks. It is our firm stand that the restructuring of the state should be done based on the federal governance system.
Q. Some say that you will return to the jungle again if the constituent assembly elections are not as per your expectations?
Bhattarai: No way. We will not return to the jungle. In the first place, we don't think that the Nepali people will not support our forward-looking agenda in the constituent assembly elections. We are, in fact, convinced that the people will vote for peace, complete democracy and progressive change, if free and fair constituent assembly elections are held. However, it is our public commitment that we will accept the elections result even if it is not as per our expectation. Then we will continue peaceful struggle until we can achieve the progressive change we want.
Q. Will the interim constitution have a ceremonial or any other form of monarchy?
Bhattarai: It won't be acceptable to us. We have already said that we should declare Nepal a democratic republic in the preamble of the interim constitution. This is our proposal and is still under discussion.
Q. But isn't it that the major parties of the SPA want to keep a ceremonial or some other form of monarchy?
Bhattarai: Their relevance will end if they do not realize the need of history. In Nepal, monarchy is a regressive force, parliamentary parties or the SPA are status quo-ist forces, and we are a progressive force. Right now, the progressive and status quo-ist forces should unite to defeat the regressive force.
Q. But some people are saying that it will be more democratic to let the people decide the fate of monarchy in the constituent assembly elections. What's your take on this?
Bhattarai: The constituent assembly will decide on the restructuring of the state by resolving the social, economic and cultural problems. Therefore, the fate of monarchy should be decided before the constituent assembly elections. Our alternative proposal is, let's decide the fate of the monarchy during the constituent assembly elections. Let's give the people a choice between monarchy or a democratic republic through a separate referendum while holding the constituent assembly elections. The referendum will decide the fate of monarchy and the constituent assembly elections the restructuring of the state. We will discuss this proposal also.